Replace the new car to kill the ideal ONE!Old car owner accused the lawyer of "cut leeks": or it is difficult to identify consumer fraud

Just in August, the sales volume of the ideal car (02015.HK/li.us) was "cut", and only 4,571 ideal One was sold. The industry exclaimed "the new car is miserable."

The new car refers to the ideal L9 released in June, and the ideal L8 that is about to appear in November. The ideal ONE has sold a total of 199,500 vehicles since its listing, and has only undergone a change of money. Facing a new car with comprehensive performance, this explosive model can't be sold.

↑ The ideal car experience store

The ideal troubles are more than that. Recently, the ideal ONE was exposed to the price reduction of 20,000 yuan, which is about to discontinue production in October. Suddenly, thousands of ideal ONE owners collectively complained about the ideal car "there is a problem of deception sales", because the ideal ONE will not be informed when buying a car will upgrade to stop production and price reduction. The plan does not have the price reduction.

In this regard, on September 6, the ideal car told the Hongxing Capital Bureau: "In the future, the ideal L8 production and sales will be the main one, and the ideal ONE will gradually withdraw from the production line." Although it does not give a clear time, it can also be considered to discontinue production of production. hammer. Regarding consumer complaints, the ideal car states that "there will be a special team to deal with users."

The Red Star Capital Bureau learned that from the interpretation of past cases and lawyers, the above situation may be difficult to be identified as consumer fraud. Han Fang, a lawyer of Sichuan Mingju Law Firm, told the Red Star Capital Bureau that there is no problem with the effectiveness of WeChat chat records, call recording, and video of the owner and salesperson, but the proof is not sufficient, which is not enough to explain the subjective fraud.

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Ideal "Kill" Ideal ONE

The ideal ONE was launched in October 2019 and was officially delivered in December of that year. In May 2021, a modified model was released. As of September 1, 2022, the ideal ONE has been delivered to 199,500 units.

But a generation of explosive models can't be sold now.

↑ The ideal one (data chart)

On June 21 this year, the ideal car of the ideal car was officially released. In July, the sales volume of the ideal ONE fell 19.98%month -on -month. Some sales said that 20 ideal L9 can be sold in a single month, but a recent ideal ONE cannot be sold.

At the second quarter of the financial report on August 15, the ideal car president Shen Yanan confirmed that his terminal was conducting the ideal ONE 7000 yuan promotional activity. However, this did not stop the trend of decline in sales, so the ideal ONE's promotional intensity increased to 20,000 yuan in early September.

After the price reduction, it will be discontinued.

When the delivery was announced on September 1, the ideal official announced the news of the new car: the ideal L8 will be released in early November this year, and the delivery will be opened in that month. Immediately, a number of salespersons revealed that the ideal ONE model will be officially discontinued in October or November. The ideal car customer service also said, "The ideal L8 is the alternative of the ideal ONE. After the replacement is completed, the ideal one will not reproduce."

It is the new car of the ideal ONE.

↑ The ideal car founder Li Xiang (data map)

As early as August 15, the ideal car founder Li Xiang once publicly stated on Weibo: "Wait for L8 (consumer) (consumer) at this stage, don't buy the ideal ONE." The model may be released earlier than expected time. "Then he also announced the product details of the ideal L8 on Weibo, and almost comprehensively surpassed the ideal ONE in experience and technology.

The news of the sudden price reduction, production suspension and new cars allow potential consumers to choose to wait and see, and also made the ideal ONE owner who had just picked up and reserved the car "angry".

Old car owner collectively complained

Think of ideal false propaganda, consumer fraud

On September 2nd, some consumers initiated collective complaints on the black cat complaint platform with "the ideal car's deception sales issues". As of the afternoon of September 6, the collective complaint volume was 1,404, while the treatment rate was 0%.

↑ Screenshot of Black Cat Complaint

The collector of the collective complaint said that on June 30 this year, he purchased an ideal ONE for 349,800 yuan. When ordering, the sales and dealers did not mention the upgrade of the car to stop production and the price reduction. When asked about this question, the other party said that there was no such plan and ensured that the national price was unified and there was no price reduction.

The initiator picked up the car on August 19. On September 1, the ideal announcement "Ideal ONE will be upgraded to discontinue production and discount 20,000 yuan." The sponsor believes that the ideal car conceals the facts and false propaganda has caused losses to it and requires compensation.

↑ Screenshot of Black Cat Complaint

There are many ideal ONE owners who encounter similar situations. In the black cat complaints, many ideal ONE owners who participated in their rights defended their rights said that they were booking or picking up the car in the near future. They confirmed that they would not replace the recently when they placed orders.

The owner of the rights protection told the Red Star Capital Bureau that she complained that it was not because of the ideal ONE price reduction, and the demand was not to make the manufacturer make up the difference. The price reduction needs to be discontinued. This is misleading and fraud. What makes people even more angry is that the ideal community is banned. "

The ideal car customer service confirmed to the Red Star Capital Bureau that the ideal L8 is tentatively listed in November 2022 and began delivery in the same month, but the ideal ONE production suspension date has not been notified. The price reduction of 20,000 yuan is a normal business behavior, and the specific situation needs to be consulting the store. Most of the demands of rights protection car owners are to refund the difference of 20,000 yuan; ensure that the vehicle is suspended after production, lifelong warranty, and continuously provide OTA upgrades; and the price difference is changed to the ideal L8.

On the evening of September 3, the ideal car issued the "Instructions on the Ideal ONE after -sales guarantee and software upgrade service", indicating that the ideal car will strictly fulfill the warranty commitment to all car owners, and provide the original factory pure accessories for maintenance during the use process for maintenance and maintenance. And warranty services, users do not have to worry about subsequent vehicle after -sales protection. In terms of owner's rights, all ideal ONE users will be given to the original "three -year traffic without worry -free solution", and will be given three years of traffic without worry, and 20G free traffic per month.

On September 6, the ideal car responded to the Red Star Capital Bureau that "there will be a special team to deal with the problem of users."

The ideal is not the first accused of "cut leeks"

The owner has resorted to the law and suffered a defeat

This is the second time that the ideal car has been questioned by consumers for the second time that the car is "denying a new car for a new car, and the new car is out of the car".

On May 25, 2021, the ideal car released a modified model 2021 ideal ONE, and the delivery was officially opened on June 1 of the same year. 2021 Ideal ONE increased by 10,000 yuan in the original price, and more than 60 software and hardware such as endurance mileage, electric drive system, automatic assistance driver, seat comfort, and rear space were modified and upgraded.

It was a good thing, but a large number of old car owners rushed to the Weibo comment area of ​​the founder of the ideal car, accusing himself "cut leeks". Many users who just mentioned the car said that they had not heard the wind released by the new car at all. Repeated and sales confirmation will not be released after the new car will not be released in the near future, but after just a few weeks, I saw the ideal new product conference.

↑ The ideal ONE old car owner charged in Li Xiang's Weibo comment area

The solution of the ideal car at that time was the right of the old car owner to replace the rights: the first car owner of all 2020 ideal ONE, the owner himself and the direct relatives ordering 2021 ideal ONE and subsequent products within two years, replacing the purchase of 10,000 yuan for the purchase of 10,000 yuan. In this regard, many old car owners do not buy it.

According to a civil judgment of the first instance of the old car owner and the ideal car and sales company's sales contract announced by the referee document network, the plaintiff Na Mou purchased a 2020 ideal ONE in March 2020, and the sales were clearly notified before 2022 that would not be before 2022. New models. However, the ideal ONE model was listed in 2021.

Namou believes that the defendant's behavior is fraud, requiring the dealer to refund and compensate, and the ideal car assumes joint liability. He submitted WeChat chat records and videos with the salesperson for evidence.

Sales companies believe that they do not have the time for the release of the new car of the ideal car, nor have it clear that the new car will not be issued before 2022, and there is no false publicity and infringement of consumers' right to know.

The ideal car said that the release of a new car is a normal business behavior, which is far from the "fraud" of the "fraud" and the "fraud" in the protection of the Civil Affairs contract. Sales fraud determined by the plaintiff is purely subjective, without facts and legal basis. According to the lawsuit principle of "who claims and who proves" by the Civil Procedure Law, the defendant should provide sufficient evidence on the intentional and damage facts of fraud.

It can be seen that the focus of the controversy in this case lies in whether the defendant has "fraud" consumers.

The court believes that fraud means that one party deliberately informs the other party's false situation, or intentionally concealed the real situation, and seduces the other party to make a wrong expression. The new listing is an internal business decision -making plan and a business secret. The law does not require whether to disclose to consumers and when it will be disclosed. Generally, common sense will not be confirmed by a certain consumer's purchase behavior. Before the release of the new car, the sales company was not inform the new car listing plan in advance. When the new car was sold is unknown to buyers and sellers. From the WeChat chat record, the sales staff does not know the situation of the new car, and the sales company does not have the intention of fraudulent consumers.

The court determined that the plaintiff advocated that the defendant's behavior constituted a lack of facts and legal basis for fraud and did not support it.

In this case, the arguments of car owners, sales companies, and automakers, and the judgment of the court, are basically the same as the current ideal ONE owners may face.

Xu Yanqing, a lawyer of Beijing Weiheng Law Firm, told the Hongxing Capital Bureau that the identification of fraud consumers should meet three points: first, the operator has subjective intentions, the second is the objective behavior of the operator's fraud, and the third is the operation of the operation. The fraudulent behavior of the person and the consumer's purchase intention are directly causal.

Han Fang, a lawyer of Sichuan Mingju Law Firm, told the Red Star Capital Bureau that there is no problem with the effectiveness of WeChat chat records, call recording, and video of the owner and salesperson, but there is no problem with the effectiveness of the proof.

Han Fang also pointed out that consumer fraud must meet the two conditions.Subjective is to know and deliberately. "The authority of the sales staff is insufficient. Only the above evidence cannot prove that the sales company knows (the new car is listed). It deliberately goes to the false notification and misleads the consumer." Objectiveness is the actual situation of fraud. Generally, it is aimed at products.Itself, such as the main functions, configuration, price, and contract of the vehicle, "the above evidence is not enough to explain objectively to the objective fraud." Red Star reporter Wu Danruo

Responsible Editor Ren Zhijiang Editor Guo Yu

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