Interview with cover | Peng Min: "I think reading poetry does not require any preparation and training, it is a beautiful misunderstanding"

Cover news reporter Zhang Jie

On February 9, 2020, Peng Min, the "veteran" player of the Chinese Poetry Conference, finally succeeded in the fifth season and became an inspirational incident. More than two years have passed. Peng Min, who is the deputy director of the editorial department in the "Poetry" magazine, has lived a pure poetry life -editing poems, reading, and appreciating poetry. Compared with other long -tied literary classics, the poems are small and exquisite, and they are approachable. Peng Min will also "hook up" poems in his debris time. Needless to say on the road of commuting, when you play billiards with friends, when friends hit the ball, Peng Min will also turn over the sofa to read Xin Qiji's words. "There is a delicate and extreme beauty in the poems. Suddenly in the trivial daily life, you will meet them. You will understand what is reflected in the heart."

The beauty of poetry is rich and complicated. Behind the clear words, there are often "small universe" with deep sea and wide sea, waiting for readers to open the thin veil. Peng Min, who has loved ancient poems from an early age, is familiar with the ancient poets and his texts. At the end of August 2022, Peng Min's new book "Zeng Xu's first -class: The exciting life of ancient poets" was published by Baihua Literature and Art Publishing House. In the book, Peng Min uses popular languages ​​to explain poetry and poets. He wants to tell readers that poetry does not have to be high, the sun, moon and stars, or warm lights with you. "The big poet does not have to pestle on the altar, bringing dry ice, and all his fairy. He can be like a classmate and friend around you, with blood, flesh, fun, ingredients. ',cute."

In the book, Peng Min refers to "Jian'an Seven Sons" as "the men's group in the history of Chinese literature"; when talking about Tao Yuanming, Peng Min's subtitle is "A good person like me who should have lived a lifetime"; To Meng Haoran, "Give me three friends, I can leverage the earth"; he called Li Qingzhao "the first talented woman in the universe" and used the lyrics "I am me, different fireworks"; Ten poets' long and short lives, "as if walking in the art museum where Cai Li competes, and seemed to travel through the big forests singing by the trees. Each of the vivid souls stretched out the prosperous branches and used ups and downs. I also used the poems of words to pour my heart to me and tell my heart. I sometimes rejoiced, sometimes sighed, sometimes sighed, sometimes sad. The beauty and sorrow of life. "

Peng Min said that he also hoped that his book would be like a sightseeing car, which will take you around in the world of poetry for a few days. But after the sightseeing, he hopes that you can fall in love with some attractions, and you can run in depth.

Due to a confession of the costume TV series "the pit of poetry"

In the 1980s, Peng Min was born in a small mountain village in Hengyang, Hunan. There are plants and trees and mountains and rivers, and most people have never left Hengyang for a lifetime. In the small world in his hometown, Peng Min imagined the outside world in various ways and planned his future. Occasionally, Peng Min saw a costume TV series "Sun and Moon Sword" in Hong Kong. A confession plot shocked him. "There are many beautiful women in the world, and I love you alone. The heavens are endless and endless, and the love of you is deep." This is the first love poem encountered in Peng Min's life. He couldn't linger in his head. "Don't get me wrong, I didn't say how good this poem is, but it is enough to conquer a fourth -year boy in elementary school. It is very sorry for Meng Haoran, Li Bai, and Wang Zhizheng. "" Deng Xun Tower ", I did not fall in love with poems, but because such a poem was entered into the pit of poetry."

Since then, Peng Min began to "read poems like crazy, carry poetry. Read on the jujube tree, read on the back of the cattle, read on the railroad track of the field, and read in the mother's beating chicken and scolding dogs. In this way, poetry has become Peng Min's closest partner. In the People's Congress, he puts the name of the girl he secretly loves and the two sorrowful Tang poems "this life has passed, and the posterity is taken to live." Skin. At Peking University, he participated in a poetry society, following a group of brothers and sisters, writing poems and playing flying flowers under the Boya Tower of Weiming Lake. Poetry often allows me to talk when I am bored, calm down when I am irritable, and get some long -lost beauty and light when I feel depressed. "

On the occasion of the publication of the new book "Zeng Xu's World", the cover journalist and Peng Min had some in -depth interviews and exchanges. The person who lives in poetry talks about the new books, talks about Yu Xiuhua, and talks about the dilemma and embarrassment of the new poem. He admits that poetry is a "back garden of the soul".

Dialogue Peng Min:

"Ancient poetry is the most basic way to survive in the world"

Cover news: There are many golden sentences in classic poems.

Peng Min: "It is important to know that the young day and the Yunzhi, once the first level of the world." This is the "Thirty Little Pixels" of the poet Wu Qingzheng of the Qing Dynasty (one). When writing this poem, Wu Qingzheng hadn't tested the junior scholar, and he was a little complained and distressed. Thinking back to his own ambitions when he was a teenager, it was endless. The reason why "Zeng Xu's first -class" is used as a book title because this poem is used to describe many poets' lives that are not encountered. Whether it is Li Bai, Du Fu, Li Shangyin, or Li He, Lu You, and Liu Zongyuan, too many poets were very high when they were young, and they had to be the first -class figure in the world. Unfortunately, the fate is weird, and the creation likes to make people. After the ideal was shattered, after all, he could only be a poet who was groaning the moon. Many of the infectious power in their works comes from the loss and suffering that has nowhere to be fulfilled. Cover news: In the article in this book, there are many vivid and dramatic details, which should be imagined by yourself. Writing style is witty and humorous, with the language characteristics of the Internet era. But how to grasp the balance between seriousness and the talker is also a problem. How did you think of these poets in this way?

Peng Min: On the premise of ensuring the basic facts, setting up dramatic scenes and dialogues, the ancients said on behalf of the ancients. This is the artistic method that Sima Qian also repeatedly used when writing the "Historical Records". At the moment, we properly add some fashionable words, pull the ancient poets into the current situation of life, and use them as a classmate and friend around us. It will undoubtedly make them closer to the readers. It is a very natural choice to interpret these poets in this way. There are many books on poetry on the market, but often "cute people are not credible and credible." Some experts and scholars' books are rigorous and solid, but it is difficult for ordinary readers to read. The books of some writers are empty and interesting, but many details and knowledge points cannot be scrutinized. I am not a professional researcher of ancient literature, but a master's degree in contemporary literature of long -term writing poetry and novels. The editor of a new poem magazine may use my professional quality and writing experience to find a delicate balance in it.

Cover news: Your job is to edit poetry. In your opinion, what are the most pronounced misunderstandings about poetry now? What misunderstandings? I rarely see novels with serious literary types (except that kind of entertainment) to cause heated discussion among the people. In recent years, it is most likely to cause controversy. New poems that can be circled most. What do you think of this phenomenon?

Peng Min: In fact, it can't be said that the general public has any misunderstandings about the new poems. The new poem is indeed taking a path that does not consider the fun of the general public. This is the two -way choice of poets and the general public, and no one can blame anyone. The poet's writing is a poet friend in the circle, a journal that can be published and awarded, and even the history of literature. The general public is not an imaginary reader of the new poem. Therefore, the rhetoric mode and text strategy selected by the new poems are not appreciated by the general public without training. Conversely, the general public can watch TV, play mobile phones, and play games. Even if they want to read, there are so many classic ancient books, novels, and best -selling books to choose from. Few people are interested in reading new poems.

Cover news: Some new poems have caused controversy, which is really related to writing writers. But there are many new poems that are written well, but they have not received enough attention. Can you say that the appreciation of good new poems is to have some aesthetic knowledge reserves or aesthetic training for readers to appreciate new poems. Moreover, many people do not realize that the reason why classical poetry is beautiful and advanced is related to the development and precipitation of thousands of years. In ancient times, there were a lot of bad poems, but they were only eliminated. Now because of the existence of the Internet platform, bad new poems will also be spread. What do you think?

Peng Min: From the perspective of time dimension, the immatureness of the new poem is beyond the idea. After thousands of years of historical precipitation, so many classic poems have been left, and the history of new poems is only more than 100 years. The lack of classic works is inevitable. This is a historical process that is difficult to seek fast. Even if China is a country of poetry, if we have intercepted a hundred years in the long history of the river, such as the one hundred years in the Yuan Dynasty, the Ming Dynasty, and the Qing Dynasty (the Yuan Dynasty did not even have enough one hundred years), how many of them can everyone be everyone. What about the famous articles? The problem of the new poem itself can only be resolved to time and historical opportunities.

There is a problem worthy of our attention: Many people will take it for granted that reading poetry is a kind of misunderstanding without any preparation and training. The reason why Chinese people can appreciate ancient poetry is because in the long primary and secondary school Chinese education, we have learned a large number of texts in an extremely detailed and detailed way. And even so, some of the slightly complicated poetry of Li Bai, Du Fu, Su Shi (not to mention Li Shangyin, Li He) are barely thrown to you without any annotations, and you may not be able to understand. Let ordinary readers face the new poems directly without preparation and training, and it is inevitable that it is unavoidable to read or appreciate it. The complexity of the new poem language system is no less than the ancient poems, and the ancient poems have accumulated a large number of interpretation systems. All the new poems read by readers in daily life are not explained without comments and no teachers. Below, readers naturally cannot enter the door. Readers believe that it is a poet's problem, and the poet thinks it is a reader's problem. This is the embarrassing situation facing the new poem.

Cover news: I read this book from the recommendation of poet Yu Xiuhua. Yu Xiuhua is a powerful poet. A while ago, because she publicized her love on the Internet, her personal life became the object of attention and hot discussion. As far as your observations are concerned, is it particularly easy to drama in love since ancient times? Or is it not the case, it is mainly related to individuals? Peng Min: Everyone has the heart of eating melon. I am a deep -eating lovers. The melon in the entertainment industry is my favorite. I have not leaked one (that's so arrogant). Among them, the vast majority of love in love. The more hidden, the more taboos, the more it affects the restlessness of the people who eat melon. The same is true for ancient poets. The love and hate of Li Qingzhao and the two husbands, Lu You and Tang Yan's long -term love for decades, Su Shi, Wang Fu, Wang Yanzhi, and Chao Yunyun's love story has always been talked about by future generations. Sometimes the information is limited, many details are lacking, and later generations will do it in person to add leaves to the story. For example, at the beginning of the story, Lu You's wife's surname was Tang, but she did not leave a name, nor did she say that she was Lu You's cousin. This information was continuously enriched by future generations. In addition to the first six words in the first six words, the probability is also the probability that later generations can catch the sword.

The love and marriage of female poets are naturally more concerned than male poets, and Yu Xiuhua's special life situation has enlarged people's attention to her relationship. Yu Xiuhua let us see a person's love and chase of good things, which can be so enthusiastic, so desperate. For a moment, she is enough to make her happy, even if she loves her blood, it is always better than nothing.

Cover news: For you, what is the role of classical poems? What is the position of classical poetry in your life?

Peng Min: In addition to busy learning and work, everyone will try to build a "soul back garden" that belongs to themselves. In this garden, we can temporarily forget the hardships of life, relax our body and mind, and immerse themselves in a simple joy. Ancient poems are such a "soul back garden". I am a house. I do n’t like to go out and play. Opening an ancient poem is equivalent to the splendid river mountain of the motherland at a very low price. A person's body is cramped and extremely limited, but the soul can travel freely in the vast space and space. Reading ancient poems will allow me to get a very rich life experience, just like I have passed through Li Bai, Du Fu, Du Fu, Du Fu, Du Fu, Du Fu, Du Fu, Du Fu, Du Fu, Du Fu, Su Shi's body, accompanied them to spend one life after another. Ancient poetry is the most basic way to survive in the heaven and earth. It is Bai Yueguang, which can be appreciated by my palm -immersive appreciation at any time in my life. It fills a lot of empty time and dispels a lot of impetuous moments. Whenever I encounter uncomfortable things, it gently strokes my head with gentle hands: it's okay, I am there.

Of course, I don't like to be too raised. In my life, I also like to play billiards and landlords. The happiness brought to me by ancient poems is similar to them. The biggest difference may be that the happiness of playing billiards and fighting landlords must cooperate with people, and the joy of ancient poetry can enjoy itself alone.

Cover news: Do you write poems? The style of literature is closely related to the development of the times. The form of poetry can no longer carry rich and complex modern life, so now we generally do not write poems. Do you recognize this view?

Peng Min: I wrote some poems in college. Peking University has a special poetry society "Beishe". I have also been the president of Beishe. The president sounds very prestigious, in fact, only responsible for one job: Friday night sent text messages to more than two hundred members, informing them to listen to lectures. We think that poetry is only suitable for the lives of the ancients, and it is only suitable for writing Mingyue Qingshan, willow beads, and flowers, but in fact, the ability of poetry is far beyond our imagination. Use poetry to present those things that do not seem to have traditional poetry in modern life, such as trains, ships, telegrams, etc. This process has actually begun in the Qing Dynasty. Judging from the situation I saw in "Poetry", the current poetry creators are still actively trying and promoting such a way of writing. Apple mobile phones, Douyin, King Glory, popular variety shows, hit film and television dramas, all kinds of trendy things you can think of, poems can be written, and many are well written. According to a data released by Xinhua News Agency in 2018 (the source is the Chinese Poetry Society), the author and enthusiasts of our country have reached 3 million, the Chinese Poetry Society has 32,000 members, and there are 800 poetry communities and poetry publications. many. Of course, the proportion of 3 million people is of course not high, but don't forget. In ancient times, only a few people wrote poetry, most of them were illiterate.

In ancient times, why did love poems relatively few?

Cover news: Is it difficult for you to say one or two your favorite poets? Or, which works give you the most nutrition and strength?

Peng Min: It is really difficult, and we will like different poets at different stages of life. When I was young, I liked Li Shangyin, obsessed with his love poem (especially the "Untitled" series). Many scholars doubt whether there is real love in ancient China, but we can believe that the poet's obsession with some women is connected with us today. The ancients tended to degrade love and put the friendship between men in their lives. Opening the poems of the Tang Dynasty, one stubble one after another, all of them were answered between men. Before Li Shangyin, there was never a big poet, such a large -scale writing of the theme of love, and wrote the sense of sorrow. For adolescent teenagers, these poems are undoubtedly very charming and contagious. Due to the different focus and value concept of ancient and modern society, some emotional and ethical relationships that people now value very much are expressed in ancient poetry, such as the flesh and blood of parents and love on the premise of equality. Every time I arrive in Father's Day and Mother's Day, everyone will dig at the same time to find poems of the themes of father love and mother love in ancient poems. As a result, I find it. I still only find a classic "You Ziyin". There is no corner material. Prior to Li Shangyin, the writing of love poems was quite bleak. Whether it is Qu Yuan, Cao Zhi, Tao Yuanming, or Li Bai, Wang Wei, and Du Fu, they have not left many classic works that can be called love poems. The relationship between the men and women in Qi Liang's poems is full of the atmosphere of playing. Only when Li Shangyin was in Li Shangyin, did you write the beauty and deep love of pure love. The drowning and torture brought by the love to a person entered the same dimension with the general emotional experience of modern people.

Unlike many people "start" after middle age, Du Fu

"I prefer Du Fu when I was young"

Cover news: Many literati of all ages like Su Shi very much. What do you think of the reason?

Peng Min: Chinese people pay attention to the world, and their character and literature are often discussed together. The reason why a literati is liked is that on the one hand, he provides many classic works that are deeply rooted in people's hearts, and on the other hand, it is inseparable from his life experience and personality charm. Su Shi's ups and downs of the ups and downs of the dramatic life gives many people's possibilities and the power of the possibility of persistence. His humorous attributes and food attributes are so grounded, not high at all. Especially in the current social and cultural context, the narrative and value concept provided by Su Shi are the most in line with the daily life and general emotions of the current people.

Cover news: I noticed that many people said that when they were at a certain age, they started to like Du Fu more than Li Bai. What do you feel?

Peng Min: Many poets and writers mentioned that when they were young, they liked Li Bai, and they suddenly "started" Du Fu and resonated with Du Fu with deep life. I am more special, I prefer Du Fu when I was young. This is because my personality is extremely restrained and inferior. Li Bai's bold and madness, the vitality of the flowing everywhere, and my aura is not very consistent. On the other hand The dedicated poetry apprenticeship, the process of reading is often the process of learning and cultivation of poetry. Although Li Bai is good, he is completely unable to learn. How do you learn? And Du Fu's greatness is highly technical and technological. You can even feel his continuous progress through his creation. At that time, Du Fu gave me the actual help far greater than Li Bai.

Cover news: How can you help you write the current article? For example, a better sense of speech?

Peng Min: I have loved memorizing poetry since I was a child, and I like to read ancient texts. I especially like the meaningful allusions in the annotations of poems and ancient texts. I have a lot of diaries. I will copy the wonderful poems, idioms, and sentences I encountered in the reading process in the diary, and I will flip it out. I also like to read, recite poems and ancient texts repeatedly. In college, I read a lot of modern poems and used modern poetry as my main creative direction. Whether it is poetry, ancient text, or modern poetry, its language is highly condensed and beautiful, which causes me to pay too much attention to the language no matter what I write. For a while I wrote a novel and I could only write one or two words a day. This way of writing is actually very painful. A brother had a deep evaluation of my novels -too much meat and too few bones, and the attention of language forms exceeded the operation of ideological content. In the process of writing "Zeng Xu's First Level", I gradually let go of the original highly carved way of writing. Try to relax myself and use relaxed speaking, try to try to make a written language as elegant. Therefore, reading this book should be a relatively relaxed and pleasant process.

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